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Dr. Kenneth I. Berns, president of the Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City, said he judged the probability that Iraq possessed weaponized smallpox as "reasonably high" and that Saddam Hussein would use such germs in a war against the United States as "quite high."

"Oh dear. Better hope he doesn't have anything genetically-engineered to evade the vaccine.

I use genetically-engineered viruses in my work, and it is rather frightening how easy it is with current technology to play mix and match with these things.

For instance, it is quite routine to take an ecotrophic virus (one that only infects a single species) and turn into an amphitrophic virus (one that infects a wide range of species) simply by swapping out the genes that code for the coat proteins. If Saddam is operating at that level of technology, I venture to say we could lose about a third of the population in the coming showdown -- comparable to a full-scale nuclear exchange.

If he has only conventional smallpox, anthrax, botulism, etc., then we may be able to contain the threat to something managable by building up our civil defense infrastucture. Even then, I don't think we're near that point -- perhaps in a couple of years. I expect Bush to keep up the rhetorical heat on Saddam and pursue every avenue to put the squeeze on him, including military pressure, but I thing those who are expecting a big assault in the next 12 months will be disappointed.
Way too dangerous, I'm afraid."

Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks; Mitchell; Nogbad; EternalHope; cicero's_son On News/Activism 07/06/2002 11:02 PM EDT #7 of 127

From Freerepublic.com: "The Great Satan and at least one other name on this thread. Or is that two other names on this thread? Hmmm. Hmmm. Hmmm. I wonder just how many names I am going to end up finding? Admin Moderator - To: FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper I am sure it troubled you too. So far on this thread, we have had you here as Korova Milk Bar, The Great Satan, Allan Quatermain, and FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper. And we also have Clinton's a Rapist. Allan Quatermain Account # 60935 Signup 2001-06-03 Messages 3 replies The other post was before 9/1/01. I am sure you signed up another account and had it ready to go for totally innocent reasons. Clinton's a rapist Account # 19264 Signup 1999-02-26 And The Great Satan Account # 75639 Signup 2001-12-28 And FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper Account # 64128 Signup 2001-07-22 And Korova Milk Bar Account # 112679 Signup 2003-06-07 This does wonders for the theories you have been pushing. 121 posted on 06/07/2003 9:04 PM PDT by Admin Moderator [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies ]

UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Would the real Luigi Warren .....
Wednesday February 4, 2004 at 5:50 pm MST (#13487)

Would the real Luigi Warren kindly step forward and field a few questions?

Luigi; as your credentials, talents and aspirations are available on the Net and assuming that a modicum of the material is not the stuff of spoofing, there are those who have relished your wisdom and wit as The Great Satan on Freerepublic.com. and would appreciate your candid responses to the following:

(1) You wrote that you have worked with plasmids in terms of bacteria and antibiotic resistance. Have you experienced any success in transferring plasmids from one bacterium to another and what is you opinion of the prospect of the engineered transfer of lethal factor.

(2) You also wrote that there is nothing to be gained by examining anthraxia an electron microscope; that the very idea was nonsense. Could you elaborate on that position?

(3) Are you still posting on Freerepublic, as you apparently havefans there that believe you are?



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Two labs confirmed Pentagon anthrax: same genetic strain used in the 2001 attacks.
UPI ^ | March 21, 2005 | Dee Ann Divis


Posted on 03/21/2005 10:54:21 AM PST by Gene Vidocq


click here to read article


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1 posted on 03/21/2005 10:54:24 AM PST by Gene Vidocq
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To: Gene Vidocq
Mark for later



2 posted on 03/21/2005 10:56:27 AM PST by Dad2Angels
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To: Gene Vidocq
What???
We REALLy need to work on our response to Bio Terrorism...this sends a message to AQ look! were confused and Discombobulated!



3 posted on 03/21/2005 10:58:50 AM PST by El_Doctor ( Éireann go Brách)
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To: Gene Vidocq
Hmmm... a major story.

Not good news - at all. Praying the good guys can track down the perps this time.



4 posted on 03/21/2005 11:00:33 AM PST by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: Gene Vidocq
So there was real Anthrax in the latest mail order Anthrax scare?



5 posted on 03/21/2005 11:00:38 AM PST by Steel Wolf (Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. Mark it zero, Dude.)
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To: Shermy; Mitchell; Battle Axe
Ping



6 posted on 03/21/2005 11:00:42 AM PST by Gene Vidocq (Damnation is the price he'll pay, for an evil man's desire.)
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To: Steel Wolf
Scare?



7 posted on 03/21/2005 11:01:47 AM PST by Gene Vidocq (Damnation is the price he'll pay, for an evil man's desire.)
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To: Gene Vidocq
I've had all my Anthrax shots and I still find the idea of biological warfare pretty scary. But that's just me.



8 posted on 03/21/2005 11:04:17 AM PST by Steel Wolf (Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. Mark it zero, Dude.)
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To: Gene Vidocq
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1366305/posts



9 posted on 03/21/2005 11:04:32 AM PST by Gene Vidocq (Damnation is the price he'll pay, for an evil man's desire.)
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To: Gene Vidocq
This is a big story. the anthrax killer is back.



10 posted on 03/21/2005 11:04:52 AM PST by Rutles4Ever (Warning: may eat own)
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To: Gene Vidocq
Now, has anyone been keeping any eye on that scientist guy, Stephen Hatfill?



11 posted on 03/21/2005 11:05:43 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (Celibacy is a hands-on job.)
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To: xzins; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Mitchell; GOPJ; Nita Nupress; kristinn; Battle Axe; Dog; Dog Gone; ..
FYI........ping



12 posted on 03/21/2005 11:05:47 AM PST by maestro
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To: El_Doctor
What???
We REALLy need to work on our response to Bio
Terrorism...this sends a message to AQ look! were
confused and Discombobulated!

They are!!! See what the article says:

The Pentagon is working to gather more than 8,000 pieces of mail that moved through its detached facility between March 10 and March 14.

Government at work. Don't you feel safer?

13 posted on 03/21/2005 11:06:02 AM PST by TomGuy (America: Best friend or worst enemy. Choose wisely.)
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To: maestro
Thanks for the ping.



14 posted on 03/21/2005 11:08:27 AM PST by GOPJ (Liberals haven't had a new idea in 40 years.)
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To: MrNatural
*They're baaaack!*

15 posted on 03/21/2005 11:10:39 AM PST by Steel Wolf (Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. Mark it zero, Dude.)
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To: KylaStarr; Cindy; StillProud2BeFree; nw_arizona_granny; Velveeta; Dolphy; appalachian_dweller; ...
ping



16 posted on 03/21/2005 11:10:50 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Gene Vidocq; muawiyah
CBI is a sub-contractor that conducts routine testing. The identity of the prime contractor who received the results is unclear.
So, it's not just one private contractor, but through two before the tests get to the proper federal authorities? Talk about Terror-budget pork barrel abuse!

"Same strain"

I suppose the prudent question is, "Was it the same strain you used to test the equipment?"

The contractor is in mass CYA mode.


17 posted on 03/21/2005 11:13:59 AM PST by Shermy
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To: Rutles4Ever
"This is a big story. the anthrax killer is back."

Doubt it. Reads like spin from the contractor alleged to have been sloppy.



18 posted on 03/21/2005 11:15:14 AM PST by Shermy
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To: Gene Vidocq
Homeland Security seems much more interested in political correctness and shaking down granny than in boosting its ability to respond to real threats.



19 posted on 03/21/2005 11:21:33 AM PST by RBroadfoot
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To: Shermy
"This is a big story. the anthrax killer is back."

"Doubt it."

Really?



20 posted on 03/21/2005 11:22:07 AM PST by Inkognitow
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To: RBroadfoot
"Homeland Security seems much more interested in political correctness and shaking down granny than in boosting its ability to respond to real threats."

Homeland Security may be out of the anthrax loop and the FBI is playing it's cards very close to the chest.



21 posted on 03/21/2005 11:25:40 AM PST by Gene Vidocq (Damnation is the price he'll pay, for an evil man's desire.)
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To: Shermy
Not sure what you mean. Because they've identified the same strain of anthrax that killed a handful of people in 2001 passed through three separate government facilities and an air force base, it means the contractor was sloppy?




22 posted on 03/21/2005 11:28:09 AM PST by Rutles4Ever (Warning: may eat own)
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To: Inkognitow
"Really?"

Didn't the earlier stories say the problem was caused by the very same contractor who's being interviewed in this article, yet doesn't directly rebut?



23 posted on 03/21/2005 11:29:14 AM PST by Shermy
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To: Gene Vidocq
Is this the same strain as the "dark angel" or "fallen angel"...whoever that one was? I think he claimed to be a truck driver and he sent anthrax to the airport post office in Greenville SC

24 posted on 03/21/2005 11:29:27 AM PST by 4everontheRight ( "I'm learning to dread one day at a time" --- Charlie Brown)
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To: hellinahandcart; general_re; aculeus
Ya gotta love anthrax threads. Resurrection, multiple personality disorder, the works.



25 posted on 03/21/2005 11:30:20 AM PST by dighton
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To: Shermy
"Didn't the earlier stories say the problem was caused by the very same contractor who's being interviewed in this article, yet doesn't directly rebut?"


One must look at the BIG picture, Shermy.



26 posted on 03/21/2005 11:31:13 AM PST by Gene Vidocq (Damnation is the price he'll pay, for an evil man's desire.)
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To: 4everontheRight
"s this the same strain as the "dark angel" or "fallen angel"...whoever that one was? I think he claimed to be a truck driver and he sent anthrax to the airport post office in Greenville SC"


You're thinking RICIN. This also has not been solved.



27 posted on 03/21/2005 11:33:12 AM PST by Gene Vidocq (Damnation is the price he'll pay, for an evil man's desire.)
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To: Shermy
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45125-2005Mar17.html?nav=rss_nation/nationalsecurity

"The stockpile question arose as the Pentagon postponed the reopening of its Remote Delivery Facility until today. The center was closed Monday after a laboratory in Richmond, Consolidated Biotechnologies Inc., confirmed a positive anthrax result from a sensor filter, a finding since discredited by senior military officials as a likely result of lab contamination."

Now the current article has the accused contractor invoking the "same strain" verbiage to elicit excitement. Simple question: is that the strain they calibrate with? Since he soen't say anything, the answer is probably "yes."

I think it's a bureaucracy blunder, nothing to do with 2001. Could be proven wrong, naturally.



28 posted on 03/21/2005 11:34:41 AM PST by Shermy
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To: Gene Vidocq
Dang! You're right! Man! I'm getting my terrorism all mixed up!!



29 posted on 03/21/2005 11:35:15 AM PST by 4everontheRight ( "I'm learning to dread one day at a time" --- Charlie Brown)
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To: dighton
You forgot numerological obsession with calendar dates in history.

;-)



30 posted on 03/21/2005 11:35:47 AM PST by Shermy
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To: dighton; aculeus; hellinahandcart
Hey, this is just like that other thing! Boy, those terrorists are mighty crafty, I tell ya...



31 posted on 03/21/2005 11:36:55 AM PST by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: Rutles4Ever
#28 was for you.

I'll add the reporter might not be up on all the details. I thought the most shocking thing was that the tests went through not one but two private contractors until the Feds were notified. ON the face that doesn't sound good to me.



32 posted on 03/21/2005 11:38:38 AM PST by Shermy
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To: Gene Vidocq
Two labs confirmed Pentagon anthrax...


(I just couldn't resist. Not with
an opening line like that!-YD)


33 posted on 03/21/2005 11:44:18 AM PST by yankeedame ("Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad.")
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To: maestro
Thanks for the ping!



34 posted on 03/21/2005 11:47:06 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Shermy
I'm not sure this is spin. I don't think the CEO of this company would make such a strong statement unless he was 100% certain that his facility did not contaminate the sample. He has too much to lose. Perhaps his facility doesn't even hold Ames - if that's the case then it's a certainty his facility did not contaminate the sample.



35 posted on 03/21/2005 11:50:29 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: Shermy
.....I'll add the reporter might not be up on all the details. I thought the most shocking thing was that the tests went through not one but two private contractors until the Feds were notified. ON the face that doesn't sound good to me.
?.......the Islamic-French Labs have got to test it FIRST?

:-(


36 posted on 03/21/2005 11:51:00 AM PST by maestro
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To: Gene Vidocq
Will someone please just hang the Anthrax guy and everyone he cares about!

37 posted on 03/21/2005 11:55:02 AM PST by Fast1 (Destroy America buy Chinese goods,Shop at Wal-Mart)
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To: 4everontheRight
"Dang! You're right! Man! I'm getting my terrorism all mixed up!!"

Perhaps not. Different attack substances do not necessarily rule out a single "terrorist".



38 posted on 03/21/2005 11:55:42 AM PST by Inkognitow
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To: yankeedame
LOL!:)



39 posted on 03/21/2005 11:57:47 AM PST by Inkognitow
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To: maestro
I'm confused.



40 posted on 03/21/2005 12:01:33 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Shermy
"I'll add the reporter might not be up on all the details."

Divis is not exactly a cub reporter.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Dee+Ann+Divis&btnG=Google+Search



41 posted on 03/21/2005 12:02:35 PM PST by Inkognitow
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To: TrebleRebel
"I'm not sure this is spin."

Concur.



42 posted on 03/21/2005 12:04:27 PM PST by Inkognitow
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To: TrebleRebel
Hmm...I caught myself in an assumption the govt. is right...ponds...turtle traps...

I'll keep an open mind on this one.



43 posted on 03/21/2005 12:04:54 PM PST by Shermy
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To: TrebleRebel
"Perhaps his facility doesn't even hold Ames"

If it doesn't...then that's big news.



44 posted on 03/21/2005 12:07:16 PM PST by Shermy
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To: Gene Vidocq
I thought this was a double negative. We really do need a reliable blogger over at the Pentagon.



45 posted on 03/21/2005 12:08:12 PM PST by BurbankKarl
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To: Shermy
"The contractor is in mass CYA mode."


There were four "automated alerts" at four different mail facilities. Those 4 alerts were direct from sensors, not from contractor tests (which came later).

Those 4 alerts followed the path of the Pentagon's mail system (i.e. what one would expect from cross-contamination of mail as it passed through post offices).

Your point about contractor contamination only comes into play with the sample swabs that were taken and handled later, long *after* the initial automated alerts had been sounded.

What triggered the automated sensors, however, was *clearly* something in the mail, as the four different sensors at 4 different sites were triggered in order with the mail flow.


46 posted on 03/21/2005 12:10:39 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Inkognitow
This is some HEAVY SH#*!



47 posted on 03/21/2005 12:11:55 PM PST by Elmo Lincoln
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To: Southack
Interesting. I'll keep an open mind.



48 posted on 03/21/2005 12:13:51 PM PST by Shermy
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To: Shermy
Yup, that's what we really need to know. Hope someone will ask him soon.
This is just speculation, but perhaps that's the reason this CEO felt confident enough to make the rather bold statement he made today. When he found out it was Ames, he knew he had to be off the hook. Of course, I could be wrong.



49 posted on 03/21/2005 12:14:14 PM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TomGuy; Grampa Dave; Dog Gone; Carry_Okie; Southack; BOBTHENAILER
"Government at work. Don't you feel safer?"
Oh the tradegy/commedy mixed with a monstrous helping of terrible irony!!!

WARNING: GOVERNMENT MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH!
AVOID INHALING LIKE EX-POTUS CLINTON DID!!!


50 posted on 03/21/2005 12:17:10 PM PST by SierraWasp (GovernMental EnvironMental Parasitic Pissants perpetually tormenting America Progress!!!)
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Two labs confirmed Pentagon anthrax: same genetic strain used in the 2001 attacks.
UPI ^ | March 21, 2005 | Dee Ann Divis


Posted on 03/21/2005 10:54:21 AM PST by Gene Vidocq


click here to read article


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To: Gene Vidocq
Bump



51 posted on 03/21/2005 12:23:33 PM PST by Elmo Lincoln
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To: Gene Vidocq
Yeah, I think they E-mailed some of that stuff to me, too.



52 posted on 03/21/2005 12:28:59 PM PST by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
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To: Gene Vidocq
I wouldn't mind seeing this somewhere other than the World Peace Herald. It's certainly possible that these guys really scrwed up and are now trying to cover their rear ends. However, the official denials have rung strange to me right from the get-go. They came out WAY too quickly after the release of positive confirmation. Furthermore, two bio-alarms going off in sepearate but nearby locations within hours of each other is just too much for me to swallow.
I believe that the whole issue of anthrax has our government so terrified that they'll go to almost any extreme to keep the truth from getting out to the public.


53 posted on 03/21/2005 12:30:41 PM PST by jpl (Islam is a religion of peace, as in "Rest in Peace".)
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To: jpl
I believe that the whole issue of anthrax has our government so terrified that they'll go to almost any extreme to keep the truth from getting out to the public.

Given Tommy Thompson's famous "It's an isolated incident, he drank from a stream" statement after the first non-animal skin worker inhalational anthrax infection in US history, it's almost a certainty the government will not be truthful when the next attack begins.

54 posted on 03/21/2005 12:35:41 PM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel
I remember gagging on that one.

My current vote is for a localized probe.



55 posted on 03/21/2005 12:38:03 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: jpl
UPI and Washinton Times are also running this story. I assume it will be everywhere in a few hours.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20050321-073641-8576r



56 posted on 03/21/2005 12:39:42 PM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: El_Doctor
"I don't fear al-Qaeda..I fear Al Redneck" - Chris Rock. Domestic source for this bio-terrorisim?



57 posted on 03/21/2005 12:49:13 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Battle Axe; My2Cents
Ping.



58 posted on 03/21/2005 12:52:16 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Allan
Ping.



59 posted on 03/21/2005 1:00:55 PM PST by Mitchell
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To: Shermy
did they find the envelopes?



60 posted on 03/21/2005 1:02:58 PM PST by oceanview
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To: El_Doctor
I got the joke wrong - Chris Rock's joke goes as follows - 'I don't fear al-Qaeda - I fear Al Cracker!'



61 posted on 03/21/2005 1:06:02 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro
Help me, I'm really confused. First I heard that the Pentagon mail facility tested positive for anthrax. Then, I heard it was a false alarm. Now, they're saying the place DID have anthrax???



62 posted on 03/21/2005 1:10:51 PM PST by rudy45
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To: TrebleRebel
UPI and Washinton Times are also running this story.
The orginal story was a UPI story in the first place. World Peace Herald, whatever the heck that is, was just posting/publishing a story provided to them by UPI.


63 posted on 03/21/2005 1:22:09 PM PST by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: jpl
"I wouldn't mind seeing this somewhere other than the World Peace Herald."


I understand what you're saying but concider the reporter's credentials rather that the medium.(I happen to know Dee Ann - my wife worked with her - and she's one sharp cookie with a strong science background).).

Knight Science Journalism Fellowship at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

U.S. Department of Justice analyst of criminal cases.


http://about.upi.com/journalists/dee_ann_divis.jlst

UPI JournalistsDee Ann Divis
UPI Senior Science and Technology Editor
Dee Ann Divis, senior science and technology editor, currently focuses on covering bioterrorism. Divis also covers the connection between policy and technology.

During the 2003-2004 academic year, Divis was on leave from UPI while she participated in the Knight Science Journalism Fellowship at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The fellowship is awarded to 10 science journalists from around the world who specialize in science, medicine, technology or the environment.

Between 2000 and 2003, Divis directed UPI's world-class coverage of science and technology, reporting and explaining developments that expand the frontiers of human knowledge and the implications of those developments.

Divis knows the scientific, technological and political communities from the inside, and from the perspective of a journalist. After graduating with honors from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Divis managed the Washington operations for a company developing commercial launches of satellites and other payloads. She also worked as a government contractor and independent analyst, providing market research on space commerce issues, and advised start-up aerospace companies on their business plans.

Divis served as an analyst under contract with the Department of Justice and has worked with the Environmental Protection Agency on the reorganization of the Superfund computer structure and the EPA's Toxic Release Inventory. She also was a manager for a company providing analysis in support of technology litigation.

She has worked as Washington editor of GPS World Magazine and editor for the Space section of Aviation Now, the Web site for Aviation Week magazine. She also worked as a contractor providing business coverage for Aerospace Daily.



64 posted on 03/21/2005 1:26:57 PM PST by Gene Vidocq (Damnation is the price he'll pay, for an evil man's desire.)
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To: rudy45
Help me, I'm really confused. First I heard that the Pentagon mail facility tested positive for anthrax. Then, I heard it was a false alarm. Now, they're saying the place DID have anthrax???
My take on the situation is this: the testing laboratory released to the press information that additional follow-on testing confirmed a positive result of anthrax. Within about thirty minutes or so, someone within the Department of Defense held a press conference and announced that everything was negative for anthrax and that the "confusion" was due to a screwup by the lab. Now, it looks like the lab is stating that the positive test was accurate and that there was no screwup.


65 posted on 03/21/2005 1:30:35 PM PST by jpl (Islam is a religion of peace, as in "Rest in Peace".)
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To: rudy45
Help me, I'm really confused. First I heard that the Pentagon mail facility tested positive for anthrax. Then, I heard it was a false alarm. Now, they're saying the place DID have anthrax???
Certainly reminds me of the line from the old Donovan tune:

"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is."

Coincidently another line in the same song is: "The lock upon my garden gate's a snail, that's what it is." Well, if the lock on the garden gate is a euphanism for Homeland Security, then a snail is looking like Speedy Gonzalez compared to the bumbling response to this current event!

[There is a Mountain lyrics]


66 posted on 03/21/2005 1:38:44 PM PST by IonImplantGuru (Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt. (May they perish who have expressed our bright ideas before us)
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To: rudy45
You just dexcribed the break down of events perfectly.



67 posted on 03/21/2005 1:44:36 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: jpl; Shermy
The announcement that it was Ames coinciding with the firm denial of the CEO that his facility was responsible almost suggests that he knows it couldn't have been his facility (because he doesn't have Ames).

One of 2 scenariois are possible, and both are interesting.

(1) The test facility DID NOT have Ames. In this case it's a huge story, since it was not due to contamination. So where did it come from?

(2) The test facility DID have Ames. In this case, it's also interesting. It then has to be asked - just how many private testing labs now have Ames in-house? The very strain that was used for the 2001 attacks and the one that is supposedly closely-guarded. Obviously from a security point of view, the more people who hold Ames, the easier it is likely to fall in to the wrong hands. Surely hundreds of test labs all over the country can't all have adequate security?



68 posted on 03/21/2005 1:48:20 PM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: Mitchell
I wonder if the Pentagon received any letter postmarked February 26?



69 posted on 03/21/2005 1:52:44 PM PST by Allan
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To: Shermy; Peach; Battle Axe; Mitchell
"Perhaps his facility doesn't even hold Ames"
If it doesn't...then that's big news.

Correct!!!???

Sounds to me there may be a third, forth, or mores 'outside/inside'....'oversight' parties really creating 'fog'.

If true,....these folks are making 'heavy-smoke' to get more time to 'cover' their 'covers'.

IMO

If this is 100% false,....then,.....we have serious problems.

IMO


70 posted on 03/21/2005 1:52:59 PM PST by maestro
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To: jpl; genefromjersey; TrebleRebel; Mitchell; Allan; Shermy
Everyone who wants to understand needs to read Cole's book on anthrax.

There are no bacteria that come with little signs around their necks telling what they are. So there are many tests that must be performed, in a sequence for isolation purposes.


There are several different tests trying to be run here and the public is trying to compare the results, without knowing what the test is FOR...

The sensors (as far as I know) are set off by PCR which will ring the alarm is they pick up a snippet of DNA. Doesn't mean that the anthrax is alive. In order for an infection to occur, it must be alive....viable...capable of reproduction.

I am thinking that the postal facility that they just opened after being closed for 3 1/2 years, had some dead pieces of anthrax spore coats is the corners of the mail tubs that they were recycled. This COULD SET OFF the sensors on the alarms. It's good to have these things so sensitive to just the dust left behind. Because you could have an anthrax perp who didn't know how to make it and ended up with dust.

I for one am not concerned that this is another attack. We have no envelope and no letter and no real trail. It is the nature of the beast.

71 posted on 03/21/2005 1:53:29 PM PST by Battle Axe (Repent, for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: Steel Wolf
Sounds like yet another (of hundreds of thousands) piece of mail transportation equipment (MTE) with residual contamination from the original attack was put into service.
Remember, Postal Management made a decision to NOT destroy every piece of MTE that could have been contaminated, so the stuff is still out there.

Given the way the letter and flat trays are constructed (a corrugated plastic material) they can work pretty much the same as an aerosol, both sucking in bacterial spores and blowing them out at another location when the mail is removed for working.


72 posted on 03/21/2005 1:58:22 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: TrebleRebel
Your reference to Tommy Thompson's statement is echoed in this article.

The govt. has never let the full, whole truth and nothing but the truth, scenario of what really happened out to the public. So we have a lot of unanswered questions.

Did you find that little reference that the information from the subcontractor was sent, but the "contractor" sat on it? We need the truth.




73 posted on 03/21/2005 1:58:54 PM PST by Battle Axe (Repent, for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: 4everontheRight
You are thinking of an attack with an entirely different material, ricin. Anthrax has been used ONE TIME ONLY.



74 posted on 03/21/2005 2:01:08 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Battle Axe
Let's combine threads:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1366305/posts



75 posted on 03/21/2005 2:01:21 PM PST by genefromjersey (So much to flame;so little time !)
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To: Gene Vidocq
It's probably the same attack as in 2001, but the Postal Service is just getting around to delivering the letters.



76 posted on 03/21/2005 2:06:05 PM PST by atomicweeder
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To: maestro
I have read this article three times and am still confused. Forgive my ignorance. Can someone please tell me what's going on here?



77 posted on 03/21/2005 2:11:53 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: atomicweeder; muawiyah
Is that true.....has their been real mail sitting in Hamilton for 3 1/2 years not delivered???????

That would explain it.




78 posted on 03/21/2005 2:18:15 PM PST by Battle Axe (Repent, for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: muawiyah
Until there is evidence to the contrary
I think your hypothesis is a strong possibility
indeed
the most likely possibility



79 posted on 03/21/2005 2:25:00 PM PST by Allan
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To: Peach
The facilities samples were 1st declared contaminated for safety measures,....then,....said to be 'clear',....now again,....MUCH LATER,....the samples are claimed to be from the 'same' batch as in 2001.
Personnel failure?

.... in-house machine detection failure?

...CYA lab defensive claim against future 'claims' against their true/false 'reports'?

....many 'other' lab reports?

Bottom Line: Too many 'cooks' in the kitchen!

Gen. Haag,.....Who's in Charge Here?

Everybody else!!

NOT ME....

(The 'Not-me' Security Company.)

.....Time and Control Breakdown costs lives....and if a weakness exists,....it could very well be repeatable at will.

THAT is a Weapons DELIVERY system of the highest order!

IMO


80 posted on 03/21/2005 2:39:00 PM PST by maestro
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To: Allan
Not just a strong possibility ~ the stuff is out there from the first attack because, ta-da, top levels of USPS management decided to NOT DESTROY all potentially contaminated equipment.



81 posted on 03/21/2005 2:46:04 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Very interesting.......
The 'FBI' etc. will not appreciate that!


82 posted on 03/21/2005 2:48:02 PM PST by maestro
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To: maestro
The FBI has no comprehension of how the USPS works.



83 posted on 03/21/2005 2:49:33 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: TrebleRebel
Ames is not closely guarded. It is the world standard. Everybody has some.



84 posted on 03/21/2005 2:51:09 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Shermy
"You forgot numerological obsession with calendar dates in history."
Just so it doesn't add up to 19.


85 posted on 03/21/2005 2:52:00 PM PST by blam
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To: muawiyah
:-(
Oh, well.....your #81 post could explain it all.


86 posted on 03/21/2005 2:52:06 PM PST by maestro
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To: Battle Axe
Every piece of equipment in the Brentwood facility (the one just opened by USPS) was DESTROYED. Nothing in there has been put into use. It's gone.
This contamination comes from other equipment contaminated back in 2001! For a variety of reasons, one of which was a downturn in mail volume, particularly direct mail advertising, much mail transportation equipment (letter and flat trays, what you are calling "tubs", a nonpostal term if I ever saw one) has been idle for several years.

The relatively recent recovery in direct mail advertising is pressing this stored equipment into service.


87 posted on 03/21/2005 2:55:07 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Is there a trail for each one of these "letter trays". In other words can they tell where they have been?

88 posted on 03/21/2005 2:57:11 PM PST by Battle Axe (Repent, for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: Battle Axe
No, not mail sitting in Hamilton. If you recall it wasn't even known that an attack had happened for several weeks AFTER it had happened.
In the interim hundreds of thousands of flat and letter trays passed through hundreds of postal facilities. Some of them were contaminated by the handful of letters in the attack. Some of them were contaminated secondarily by mail processing equipment that had handled those letters.

Almost immediately we had a really serious recession. At the same time direct mail advertising volumes fell and less equipment was needed to move the mail. That equipment went into storage.

The economy has improved. Advertising is up. The equipment is coming out of storage.

The only thing that's changed in 3 years is that anthrax detection equipment has been installed in many postal facilities. The older contamination from this stored equipment is now setting off the alarms.


89 posted on 03/21/2005 2:59:45 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: blam
Or "19". Remember, you read Arabic left to right (although they use the modern, universal standard for numbers).



90 posted on 03/21/2005 3:01:00 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"This contamination comes from other equipment contaminated back in 2001! ... The relatively recent recovery in direct mail advertising is pressing this stored equipment into service."


A valid theory. Possible. Determinable. Lets trace it and see.


91 posted on 03/21/2005 3:01:50 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: muawiyah; Shermy; jpl
Just for the record, here's what a guy called Winkenwerder had to say last week about the presumptive positive sample from CBI. He stated it later turned out to be negative. That's the complete opposite of what the UPI article today is reporting. The UPI article states that not only did it turn out to be positive, but that no fewer than 3 different labs got a positive result (inclusive of CBI).


http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=50323
"We had some preliminary results that were positive but subsequent additional tests have determined that the sample that we had was in fact negative," said Dr. William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary of defense for health affairs.



92 posted on 03/21/2005 3:02:42 PM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: Battle Axe
Hunh? The USPS is a truly large operation with HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of pieces of mail handled since the anthrax attack.
It has tens of millions of pieces of equipment to move this load.

You want to send me into paroxysms of laughter ~ just propose in my presence that UPS or FED-EX could "do the job better".

Back to the point, it's not likely 100% of the equipment can be tracked, but odds are that somebody at USPS is working on that!


93 posted on 03/21/2005 3:04:16 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: TrebleRebel
I'm guessing this DOD guy wasn't in that job in 2001. He probably doesn't know anything about mail either.



94 posted on 03/21/2005 3:05:59 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Yes, sounds like a valid theory.

Is all the mail irradiated now? Or just the stuff going around Wash. DC??

95 posted on 03/21/2005 3:14:28 PM PST by Battle Axe (Repent, for the coming of the Lord is nigh!)
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To: Battle Axe
I think what mail is irradiated is a tad confidential. On the other hand, they are installing the anthrax (and other hazmat) detection equipment nationwide.



96 posted on 03/21/2005 3:30:03 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: atomicweeder
EXCELENT lol

97 posted on 03/21/2005 3:39:37 PM PST by The Turbanator
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To: AFPhys
"good guys can track down the perps this time."; Do you mean Homeland Security? Certainly not the FBI, they aren't sure who they are looking for from the first incident and couldn't find a convenient scapegoat, although they tried.

98 posted on 03/21/2005 4:55:42 PM PST by -=Wing_0_Walker=-
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To: Gene Vidocq
So when do we start draining fish ponds?



99 posted on 03/21/2005 5:30:04 PM PST by Nita Nupress
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To: anyone
Off topic: Laurie Dhue on Fox just said Samantha Runyon was held "2 or 3 days" in a trailer near her home before being killed. Has anyone else heard that? Surely she meant "hours." Dear Lord.

100 posted on 03/21/2005 5:37:40 PM PST by Nita Nupress
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Skip to comments.

White House promises 'smoking gun intelligence'
The Daily Telegraph ^ | January 16, 2003 | Toby Harnden


Posted on 01/15/2003 6:10:18 PM PST by MadIvan


click here to read article


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To: niman
Oh, please. Don't start with the 35As crap. You are so full of it. By the way, did you ever track down those conspirators who were playing with your head on your stock tipster board? I mean, the ones whose names were all derived from proteases?

301 posted on 01/17/2003 7:50:17 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
ROFLMAO! Weren't you saying that on anthrax_fans a year ago?
Did the anthrax_fans exist a year ago?


302 posted on 01/17/2003 7:50:20 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
Please, don't start with your BS again. We've been through all this, many moons ago. You tried to get personal information on people, you threatened them with lawsuits, then you took your marbles and ran away, like a good little paranoid schizophrenic. And now, you surface again, like a smelly turd that refuses to go down the toilet. What's up with that, Niman?

303 posted on 01/17/2003 7:53:50 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
I certainly have never said the attack was US sponsored.
Let me clarify. It was state sponsored in the sense that Ames was isolated and grown in the US and the US program provide sponsorship for developing the know how to weaponize the material. However, the state didn't sponsor (by giving orders) the one or two US scientists who did the mailings.


304 posted on 01/17/2003 7:54:50 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
However, the state didn't sponsor (by giving orders) the one or two US scientists who did the mailings.
So you foreswear and eschew the full Kristoff? Once and for all, Steve Hatfill did not receive anthrax from his CIA controls at a secret Cipro party in a safe house in Virginia, contrary to the absurd suggestion of Nicolas Kristoff in the New York Times. Correct?

Where's the grand jury, Henry?


305 posted on 01/17/2003 7:57:44 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
We've been through all this, many moons ago.
Mort, It looks like most on this board are lacking the science, and I assumed that you could help them out with your expertise.

As far as knowing your identity, it really wasn't that hard, so you need not worry about that. You are who you are and that part is fairly well known.


306 posted on 01/17/2003 8:01:56 PM PST by niman
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To: The Great Satan
contrary to the absurd suggestion of Nicolas Kristoff in the New York Times. Correct?
As I said, the Morton D Ballard / Louis Mason theory is becoming increasingly popular. Coupled with Alfred Hitchcock's "Rope" it looks to be an "award winner", which I think you understand.


307 posted on 01/17/2003 8:06:29 PM PST by niman
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To: niman; Jim Robinson
Mort, It looks like most on this board are lacking the science, and I assumed that you could help them out with your expertise.
Science? The science of "35 As"? ROFL! Nobody's going to be fooled by your BS diarrhea of pseudo-scientific jargon this time around, niman. It's too late for a snow job. Nobody's buying it. Try posting a picture of yourself wearing a white coat. Too bad about losing that tenure-track position by the way. What was the problem? Too much BS?

BTW, where's the grand jury, Henry?


308 posted on 01/17/2003 8:08:01 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: Allan
1. The anthrax did not come from the USA.
Even Level 1 is tricky here. Ames strain anthrax did come from the U.S.A., of course. It was isolated from a dead cow in Texas, now the second most famous cow in history (the first being Mrs. O'Leary's cow which did not start the Great Chicago Fire).

Presumably when people say that the anthrax did not come from the U.S.A, they mean that a sample was brought from the U.S.A. to another country, where it was cultured and weaponized; also that it was delivered by foreign agents in support of some foreign military or terrorist purpose.


309 posted on 01/17/2003 8:10:48 PM PST by Mitchell
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To: MadIvan
I just hope no intelligence assets lose their life over the disclosures or that any very secret technology is compromised.

310 posted on 01/17/2003 8:14:17 PM PST by fso301
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To: The Great Satan
Too bad about losing that tenure-track position by the way
Vic, Speaking of positions, how do you like working in NJ? Looks to be a much easier commute.


311 posted on 01/17/2003 8:14:42 PM PST by niman
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To: Mitchell
Presumably when people say that the anthrax did not come from the U.S.A, they mean that a sample was brought from the U.S.A. to another country, where it was cultured and weaponized; also that it was delivered by foreign agents in support of some foreign military or terrorist purpose.
Mitchell, You have been listing to Vic too much. Can you name ONE citation for Ames with 35 A's outside of the US that matches the attack Ames? I susspect Vic will not want to discuss this from a science point of view, because there is NO DATA.

How about from a media point of view. Have you read one citation of Ames with 35 A's outside of the US? I didn't think so.


312 posted on 01/17/2003 8:18:58 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
What was the problem? Just that your science was no good, or was it your paranoid-schizophrenic tendencies, or you proclivity for threatening people with lawsuits?

313 posted on 01/17/2003 8:19:27 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: Mitchell
1. The anthrax did not come from the USA.
I should have been more precise.
Rephrase that:

1. The spores did not come from the USA.


314 posted on 01/17/2003 8:21:51 PM PST by Allan
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To: niman
I didn't say whether I believed that it came from outside the U.S.A., or in what sense it might have come from outside the U.S.A. I was merely pointing out that even asking what it means to come from outside the U.S.A. was more complicated than one might realize.
And, no, TGS has not convinced everyone of his theory. My mind is open until I see some actual evidence.


315 posted on 01/17/2003 8:24:07 PM PST by Mitchell
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To: The Great Satan
for threatening people with lawsuits?
Vic, I would think that a lawsuit would be the least of your worries. Let's focus on some science and put some of that UPenn PhD training to work.

Why is it that no one has come up with ONE example of Ames with 35 A's outside of the US?


316 posted on 01/17/2003 8:26:37 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
Don't start with the BS henry. Just tell us about the tenure thing. That must have been quite a blow. Still, I think Pitt is well rid of you. Even in a low status department like Epidemiology, you want people who are a little bit more than bullsh***ers, correct?

317 posted on 01/17/2003 8:30:19 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: Mitchell
I was merely pointing out that even asking what it means to come from outside the U.S.A. was more complicated than one might realize.
Mitchell, Good point. By definition all Ames attack anthrax originated from the US because the bacteria was isolated from a cow that died in Texas in 1980. In fact I know of only two natural isolates of Ames, and both came from Texas (not withstanding the Ames-like nonsense posted about the accidental releas in the former Soviet Union in 1979).


318 posted on 01/17/2003 8:30:32 PM PST by niman
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To: Mitchell
TGS has not convinced everyone of his theory. My mind is open until I see some actual evidence.
Mitchell, Glad to hear that. I was worried that Vic had converted everyone on the anthrax_fans board in my absence. I take it that Vic hasn't presented any evidence there either.


319 posted on 01/17/2003 8:33:10 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
Where's the grand jury, henry?

320 posted on 01/17/2003 8:33:59 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
Just tell us about the tenure thing.
Vic, Your guesses about me have never been right, so why started discussing false info? You've have a PhD from U Penn since 1990 and have experince in vaccines and now you have graduated to monoclonals, my specialty, but lets just say you are scientically trained and should be able to help the readers understand that the sequencing of the attack Ames identified a very interesting locus that can be used to distnguish several Ames isolates and this intersting locus is IDENTICAL in the attack Ames and the Ames from USAMRIID.


321 posted on 01/17/2003 8:39:49 PM PST by niman
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To: Allan
1. The spores did not come from the USA.
Allan, Can you cite ONE examples of spores from outside of the US that are an EXACT match with the attack Ames and 35 A's? The has been PUBLISHED in Science for USAMRIID. Exactly the same as the attack anthrax, down to the 35 A's on pX02.


322 posted on 01/17/2003 8:43:23 PM PST by niman
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To: niman


323 posted on 01/17/2003 8:47:27 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: niman
Anthrax Sequence: Useful Data But No Smoking Gun
Martin Enserink
Science Magazine, 10 May, 2002

Seven months after anthrax letters hit U.S. media and government offices, investigators still haven't nabbed a suspect--and the genome project launched in part to help them seems unlikely to provide a break either. An analysis of the genome of the strain used in the attacks, published online this week by Science (www.sciencexpress.org), has yielded extra tools for fingerprinting the hundreds of different anthrax strains, but little in the paper suggests that it can help the FBI tie the attack strain to a specific lab.

"I don't see how this could help us much," says Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, director of the Federation of American Scientists' Chemical and Biological Arms Control Program, who has closely watched the federal investigation. But even without an immediate payoff, researchers at The Institute for Genomic Research (TIGR) in Rockville, Maryland, who conducted the research, say it provided experience in comparing microbial genomes that could be useful in future outbreaks.

Last fall's letters contained spores of a Bacillus anthracis strain called Ames, which was collected from a dead cow in Texas in 1981, sent to the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases in Fort Detrick, Maryland, and later forwarded for experiments to some 14 other labs.

Because microbes mutate whenever they grow, it's possible that the current strain at each lab is a little different from the rest. And if one of them happens to match the attack strain, now dubbed Florida, it might lead to the bioterrorists. But until recently, genetic fingerprinting studies by Paul Keim's lab at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff had looked at diversity at just several dozen markers, rather than the entire genome, and these had failed to discriminate among different Ames isolates.

Now, TIGR's Timothy Read, Keim, and others have sequenced the entire Florida strain and compared it with the so-called Porton strain, whose genome TIGR had already sequenced. (A paper describing that genome is due out later this year.) Like most strains, the Florida strain contains two extra rings of DNA, called plasmids, that the Porton strain lacks, so the researchers compared their sequences with the plasmids from two other strains. In all, the team found 53 places where the Florida genome differed from the Porton strain and the two previously sequenced plasmids.

But could these apparent genetic hotspots also help tell apart other, previously indistinguishable anthrax strains? To find out, the researchers took four Ames isolates collected from various labs; another Ames strain from a dead goat in Texas; and two non-Ames strains found in cattle. For each strain, they determined the exact sequence at each of the 53 markers.

Although the markers could clearly distinguish the samples from dead animals, they did a poor job of discriminating among the four lab strains. One had 36 copies of the nucleotide A where others had only 35--an almost meaningless difference. Another had 37 copies at that same spot; but that strain also lacked one of the plasmids, making it easy to tell apart anyway. At all the other markers, the four lab strains and the Florida strain were identical. Theoretically, more variation may emerge when the Ames strains from all 15 labs are put through the same 53-marker test. But the scant differences found so far "offer only slim hope that something useful will come out," says Rosenberg. Still, says Keim, the study shows that full-genome sequencing could be a useful forensic tool. And in cases such as bioterror crimes, the price tag--some $125,000 for a bug's genome--is hardly an issue: "A lawyer's sneeze costs more than that."


324 posted on 01/17/2003 8:58:29 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
Vic, The article you posted merely says that you can't exclude ALL labs but one. However, it provides NO DATA for even ONE exact match outside of the US.

325 posted on 01/17/2003 9:52:21 PM PST by niman
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To: The Great Satan
Vic,

What does ImClone's chart look like (do they offer any options in the money to new employees)?

326 posted on 01/17/2003 9:54:36 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
"THIS IS NEXT

WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX

YOU CAN NOT STOP US"


You know something? I think there may be something not quite right with this version. I mean, isn't there something missing and aren't the phrases from two different letters? Where's the line about death and Allah? I mean isn't the "threat" not just a warning or is? Man I'm confused.I wonder is TGS could help me out with this?
I'll wait for an answer.

"THIS IS NEXT

WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX

YOU CAN NOT STOP US"


327 posted on 01/17/2003 10:12:27 PM PST by co-jones
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To: co-jones
That quote is on the post for the graphic he turned me on to:


I had no idea he was tenured.


328 posted on 01/17/2003 10:35:05 PM PST by txflake
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To: txflake
Gee, and just where have I seen that picture before?
I believe that one of the unholy trinity may have been looking for it as he said he "lost" his copy.

SHhhhhh, listen carefully - what do you hear?

Could that possibly be The Fat Lady Singing?

329 posted on 01/17/2003 10:45:48 PM PST by AnthraxProfiler
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To: AnthraxProfiler
So is the guy selling anthrax vaccine, or what?

330 posted on 01/17/2003 10:52:27 PM PST by txflake
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To: Allan
It isn't. I'll just say I think both are wrong and let it go at that.

331 posted on 01/17/2003 10:55:21 PM PST by keri
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To: co-jones
"THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US"
Of course this is nonsense. The THIS IS NEXT was from the Sept 18 letter that most recipients just threw in the garbage. No one knew what the idiot was taking about. He was so delusional that he sent a letter about anthrax and never included the word anthrax! The guy was a complete moron. When the victims developed lesions, they thought they were insect bites!

Our clueless clown then wrote the second letter, which included WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX, YOU CAN NOT STOP US, expecting people to believe that the letters came from the dead hijackers. Utter nonsense that was believed by a few nuts into involved convolted plots involving "sleeper cells".

If you think about, these detailed plans designed to deceive were somewhat like the attempted "perfect crime" of Leonard and Loeb who created the fake names of Morton P Ballard and Louis Mason and left clues to shift the blame elsewhere. Now what moron(s) would immitate those clowns, who messed up big time and got life plus 99 years for ONE murder.

The anthrax mailer(s) should be so lucky!


332 posted on 01/17/2003 10:59:59 PM PST by niman
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To: txflake
Why do you ask?

Has he been trying to sell something here?

Were there many buyers?

You know, some folks sure are naive.

333 posted on 01/17/2003 11:00:40 PM PST by AnthraxProfiler
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To: AnthraxProfiler
No, just that this thread has been going on for days, nobody knows what the smoking gun is, but many people are convinced it's anthrax. Passionately. I just want the gun ID'd.

334 posted on 01/17/2003 11:10:00 PM PST by txflake
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To: niman
Was it Shakespeare who wrote, The Devil can quote the bible for his own purpose, or did he write Satan can quote the bible for his own purpose?

Oh well, guess it doesn't much matter now.

I'm really tired. Had a long day and I've got a really big day tomorrow. Think I'll get some sleep - now.

335 posted on 01/17/2003 11:13:11 PM PST by AnthraxProfiler
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To: txflake
I'm surprised after reading this entire thread that one of our researchers hasn't posted Dr. Hamza's comments regarding where the Iraqi atomic device was to be detonated for underground testing. (I think Hamza had already defected when the Iraqis tested the 'Hiroshima type device'; the choices for testing were all listed for consideration and the top two were known to Hamza when he defected.)
If one wants a smoking gun, the test site is the obvious answer. The Iraqis tested a device, and have been seeking to construct duplicate devices while trying to develop a larger device ... and they may have already succeeded in that endeavor, but haven't tested it nor do they need to since the specs would have been proven with the initial test successfully completed (as a detonator for the larger version).

Regarding a smoking gun, there are several already billowing : the training base 80 kilks south of Baghdad, the sponsorship for Palestinian and Hamas terrorist activities and successes, the Anthrax genetically linked to the supply we sent to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, the 1993 attack on the WTC, the connection between Iraqi Intelligence chiefs and Atta, the ... well, you get the gist.


336 posted on 01/17/2003 11:15:57 PM PST by MHGinTN (Manama na, meep meep maneemie, manama na, meep mee menie ...)
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Comment #337 Removed by Moderator

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Comment #338 Removed by Moderator

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To: MHGinTN
That test site, if confirmed, would be a much more galvanizing revelation than all other developing proofs. And I think it needs to be on the table before SH is allowed to take exile.

339 posted on 01/17/2003 11:28:28 PM PST by txflake
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To: The Great Satan
Im a bit lost on your dialogue with Niman but I have a friend who is in the bio field ....he has long held the anthrax is probably from Iraq and says it is very difficult to aeresolize (sp?) and needs to be done in a well equipped lab

340 posted on 01/17/2003 11:30:03 PM PST by woofie
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To: AnthraxProfiler
I think that notion, the the Devil can quote scripture, actually comes from the New Testament.

341 posted on 01/17/2003 11:32:34 PM PST by MHGinTN (Manama na, meep meep maneemie, manama na, meep mee menie ...)
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To: Allan
Bump

342 posted on 01/18/2003 12:02:49 AM PST by Allan
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To: co-jones
"THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US"
Note the use of the word 'US'. And note the size of the conventional forces the United States, Great Britain and Australia are putting togther. Also note that the strings on the Russian forces to the north have been lifted.


343 posted on 01/18/2003 2:23:32 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: niman
Perhaps you can show the UN inspectors where, how and when Saddam disposed of his anthrax bioweapons.

344 posted on 01/18/2003 2:27:11 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: The Great Satan
Gulf War Syndrome is a myth
Actually, the health problems of former veterans of the Gulf War have been so severe and obvious that they forced our government to admit that the army mistakenly blew up some chemical/biological WMD that Saddam apparently had mislabelled and piled amongst a conventional weapons storage bunker.

Why do you think that 'in the know' military personnal want Saddam so badly ?


345 posted on 01/18/2003 2:34:52 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: woofie
he has long held the anthrax is probably from Iraq and says it is very difficult to aeresolize (sp?) and needs to be done in a well equipped lab
Well the aerosolization is out of my area but the US has admitted finding silica in the attack anthrax and some have speculated that colloidal silica was used to aerosolize the attack anthrax.

Vic (aka The Great Satan) used colloidal silica as a major ingredient in his PhD thesis, so he is probably the best one to ask about aerosolization.


346 posted on 01/18/2003 2:36:11 AM PST by niman
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To: woofie
Im a bit lost on your dialogue with Niman but I have a friend who is in the bio field
I believe the dialogue was painfully obvious to Vic. If you want a clue to the real deal here, check out Vic's favorite movie, Rope, by Alfred Hitchcock. It is loosely based on the Leopold and Loeb case and it is about two college students who murder a classmate and dump the body in a chest in their room. They then invite friends to a party in their room and the true facts slowly emerge.

All I can say at this point, is "Welcome to the Party". The fun has just begun (and Elvis, aka Vic, has left the building).


347 posted on 01/18/2003 2:43:01 AM PST by niman
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To: txflake
So is the guy selling anthrax vaccine, or what?
Check out Leopold and Loeb. They wanted to commit the "perfect crime". They killed a classmate just for the thrill of it, to show that they were superior intellects and could get away with it. Pretty remarkable, but a true story. They really bothched the murder and left a lot of evidence, even though they did a lot of planning ahead of time, including creating ficticious sharacters, Morton D Ballard and Louis Mason, to send the police chasing wild goose chases. They even arrested someone, named George Johnson, who matched the fictional name of their fictional killer. Now I know no one has called Sadaam Hussein, George Johnson, but there are enough clues to figure out the real deal here.

Just blow the dust and waiting till you see how the real thing flys.


348 posted on 01/18/2003 2:55:34 AM PST by niman
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To: justa-hairyape
Why do you think that 'in the know' military personnal want Saddam so badly ?
Uh, that would be because he flattened the World Trade Center and smashed a jet airliner into the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11/01.


349 posted on 01/18/2003 4:40:21 AM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
that would be because he flattened the World Trade Center and smashed a jet airliner into the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11/01
Actually, Sadams not the suicidal type. Just like Allah, he has others do his fighting for him. Al Queda suicide terrorists flew the planes. Saddam was probably in his bunker or in one of his Palaces watching it live on CNN. Noone suspected Saddams involvement early on. Word was slowly leaked down from the top, I suspect.


350 posted on 01/18/2003 4:53:39 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF 9-11 AND THE WAR ON TERRORISM by: Dr. Albert D. Pastore Phd.

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Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax
Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax B’nai B’rith Wassington dc 1997 person of interest person of interest person of interest victor victor victor goetz goetz biologist microbiologist chemist biochemist vaccine bacteris anthracis b.anthracis person of interest person of interest person of interest victor victor victor goetz goetz biologist microbiologist chemist biochemist vaccine bacteris anthracis b.anthracis person of interest person of interest person of interest victor victor victor goetz goetz biologist microbiologist chemist biochemist vaccine bacteris anthracis b.anthracis person of interest person of interest person of interest victor victor victor goetz goetz biologist microbiologist chemist biochemist vaccine bacteris anthracis b.anthracis dpore spores
Berry Berry Berry Berry md MD
Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax freerepublic the great satan anthrax letters anthrax anthrax anthrax investigation anthrax letters anthrax letters anthrax anthrax anthrax investigation anthrax letters Ft Detrick USAMRIID Camel club Assaad antrax antrax 005 ripley zack Don Foster forensic analysis handwriting anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax investigation spores lost stolen ames ames anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city

Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax goetz anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax
Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax victor investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax