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"His Name Isn't Victor Goetz"

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UNDER CONSTRUCTION

"Hey you friggin' weirdo, listen up and listen carefully: the guy that you keep insanely thinking is the anthrax murderer and that you nuttily believe is going to inevitably be arrested by the FBI sooner or later doesn't work at Merck, his name isn't Victor Goetz, and he doesn't live anywhere in or near New Jersey. He a biology grad student at Caltech named Luigi Warren. Please stop repeatedly trolling this site under different names and personalities if you don't mind, thanks.

18 posted on 02/02/2004 10:56:43 AM PST by jpl

Biotechnology and Bioengineering

Volume 37, Issue 7 , Pages 614 - 626

Published Online: 18 Feb 2004

Copyright 1991 John Wiley & Sons, Inc.


Article

A novel magnetic silica support for use in chromatographic
and enzymatic bioprocessing

Victor Goetz, Magali Remaud, David J. Graves *

Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19104-6393


___________________________________________________________

"His name is't Victor Goetz"

His Name Isn't Victor Goetz


To: Sanchito; Van der Waals; Princeton; AnthraxProfiler

Hey you friggin' weirdo, listen up and listen carefully: the guy that you keep insanely thinking is the anthrax murderer and that you nuttily believe is going to inevitably be arrested by the FBI sooner or later doesn't work at Merck, his name isn't Victor Goetz, and he doesn't live anywhere in or near New Jersey. He a biology grad student at Caltech named Luigi Warren. Please stop repeatedly trolling this site under different names and personalities if you don't mind, thanks.

18 posted on 02/02/2004 10:56:43 AM PST by jpl

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Feds seek delay in anthrax lawsuit
Palm Beach Post ^ | 1/31/04 | Alan Gomez


Posted on 01/31/2004 6:17:22 AM PST by TrebleRebel


Feds seek delay in anthrax lawsuit

By Alan Gomez, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Saturday, January 31, 2004

WEST PALM BEACH -- Federal attorneys are citing national security concerns in asking a Palm Beach County judge to delay a lawsuit filed by the widow of the nation's first anthrax victim, saying it could undermine one of the "largest and most complex investigations in law enforcement history."

In motions filed this week in federal court, lawyers for the government said, "... a stay of this civil suit is necessary to avoid compromising the United States' active investigation of the anthrax attacks of fall 2001 and to avoid public disclosure of sensitive information concerning biological weapons such as anthrax."

Unable to reach a resolution with the plaintiffs, federal attorneys are facing a March deadline to respond to the lawsuit filed by Maureen Stevens, whose husband, Bob, died after being exposed to anthrax while working as a photo editor at American Media Inc. headquarters in Boca Raton.

Wednesday's request to Federal Judge Daniel T.K. Hurley was for a six-month delay, and then for an opportunity to review whether another delay is necessary.

Maureen Stevens filed the lawsuit in September, seeking $50 million in damages for herself and her three children.

Her attorney argued in the suit that U.S. officials failed to secure a Maryland laboratory where the deadly bacterium was stored. The suit bases its claims on a memorandum that names the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Md., as the source of the Ames anthrax strain that Stevens believes infected her husband.

The Stevenses' attorney, Richard Schuler, said at the time that the family was frustrated over the government's stonewalling tactics, taking months to turn over an autopsy report, denying them access to DNA tests and even denying them money from the Sept. 11 Victims Compensation Fund.

In the government motion and a 114-page memorandum supporting their request, federal attorneys said Stevens' hope for a speedy investigation would undercut what has become a monumental investigation into a series of crimes that crippled the country.

Shortly after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, the country was sent into another panic as anthrax-laden letters and numerous hoax letters appeared across the nation, including media outlets in New York and Boca Raton and congressional buildings in Washington. Twenty-two people were infected with anthrax, five people died and 30,000 were treated with antibiotics to protect against anthrax infection.

In an affidavit attached to the motion, Richard Lambert, the FBI's inspector in charge of the FBI/U.S. Postal Service investigation known as "AMERITHRAX," explained the breadth of the ensuing investigation.

Federal agents have responded by putting in 251,000 agent-hours -- the equivalent of 97 work years -- interviewing more than 5,000 people and serving more than 4,000 subpoenas, Lambert said. The affidavit says the investigation has yielded "subjects of the investigation" and says that a "specific forensic signature is continuing to emerge which characterizes the anthrax used in the attacks."

Opening the files in the Stevens case, federal attorneys argued, would only hinder that investigation and possibly keep law enforcement from catching the responsible parties.

"Plaintiff's frustration that the murder of her husband remains unsolved and her desire to help the United States' investigation to succeed are understandable," the motion reads. "Unfortunately, however, the means that plaintiff seeks to employ -- stripping the investigation of its secrecy and conducting her own parallel investigation via this civil suit -- would be extremely harmful rather than helpful. Litigation of this suit also would pose a significant risk of disclosing classified or sensitive information relating to the acquisition, development, and use of weapons of mass destruction such as anthrax, a risk that independently justifies a stay."

Federal attorneys also included a March 2002 memorandum from White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card to all executive departments and agencies calling on them to review their records to ensure sensitive information is being safeguarded.

No hearing has been scheduled for the government's request.

alan_gomez@pbpost.com



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TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: ANTHRAX
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1 posted on 01/31/2004 6:17:22 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: Sabertooth; Allan; Mitchell; genefromjersey; jpl
Surprise, surprise - after 2 1/2 years and draining ponds in Maryland the Feds are getting so close to an arrest that this lawsuit would just interfere with their investigation.

Or it could it be that for some unkown reson they don't want the public to see the evidence concerning how the anthrax was weaponized?

2 posted on 01/31/2004 6:20:17 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel
"Unable to reach a resolution with the plaintiffs, federal attorneys are facing a March deadline to respond to the lawsuit filed by Maureen Stevens"

Good for Mrs. Stevens - she obviously refuses to be bought off. It's not the money she wants - it's the truth.

3 posted on 01/31/2004 6:26:45 AM PST by TrebleRebel
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To: TrebleRebel
The "vital national security" aspect is that someone pissed away $50-$100M drilling a dry hole with "AMERITHRAX."

If it came from Iran, Syria, or anyplce else, it is the right of the people to know. And if it is the will of the people that nation should be erased from the face of the Earth, so be it.

4 posted on 01/31/2004 6:31:01 AM PST by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)
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To: TrebleRebel
Good for Mrs. Stevens - she obviously refuses to be bought off. It's not the money she wants - it's the truth
Looking for it from our government/legal system is an exercise in futility.


5 posted on 01/31/2004 6:53:32 AM PST by steve50 ("There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner.")
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To: TrebleRebel
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec01/s121501b.asp
Check this out. Read paragraph beginning with "Regardless of whether ISU.... I will post another curious article in a separate post.
One of the articles about Maureen Steven's suit stated that her lawyer had been denied access to the DNA information.

6 posted on 01/31/2004 7:19:20 AM PST by Battle Axe (My real name means War Hammer.)
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To: TrebleRebel
The truth is out there. Time to hear it.

7 posted on 01/31/2004 7:54:54 AM PST by Ranger
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To: TrebleRebel
Any old excuse will do.

8 posted on 01/31/2004 8:02:02 AM PST by latrans
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To: steve50
In the remote event that she should win this, the money should come from federal pensions. - FBI's first - with no repayment by the taxpayer, resulting in less than $4000 a month to the federales in retirement at Boca Raton.

9 posted on 01/31/2004 9:07:49 AM PST by henderson field
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To: henderson field
On the remote chance that it even gets a fair shot at going to court, I wonder what the legality of taking out a life insurance policy on her is?

10 posted on 01/31/2004 9:12:12 AM PST by steve50 ("There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner.")
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To: eno_
The "vital national security" aspect is that someone pissed away $50-$100M drilling a dry hole with "AMERITHRAX."
I love it whenever someone displays basic good old fashioned common sense and a well-functioning BS detector, and you certainly do.

....saying it could undermine one of the "largest and most complex investigations in law enforcement history."

Personally, I'd call it one of the biggest jokes of an investigation in law enforcement history, right down there with the Beltway Sniper investigation. And at least that one eventually got solved, thanks to a particularly alert truck driver.


11 posted on 01/31/2004 10:22:29 AM PST by jpl
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

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To: TrebleRebel
They are still trying to decided which pond will get drained next week.

13 posted on 01/31/2004 2:54:35 PM PST by ChefKeith (NASCAR...everything else is just a game!)
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To: ChefKeith
decided

14 posted on 01/31/2004 2:55:28 PM PST by ChefKeith (NASCAR...everything else is just a game!)
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To: Sanchito
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec01/s121501b.asp This is one of the quotes that states that "ISU didn't currently have that strain." The second one has Cheville saying that they didn't have the strain when it was mailed. But did they have it and someone stole it? Did they know what was stolen, and they knew they had multiple vials? These people of all were the ones that knew that each vial has a genetic fingerprint just as different as my fingerprints are from yours.
Second article: October 20, 2001 Newsmax.com Wires titled Iowa Destroys Anthrax Stores
Dr. Jim Roth, the leader of the destruction, states there was no overall inventory so there was no way to determine is any vials were missing. Two paragraphs later he says that all the vials were kept in a locked laboratory, and there was no evidence any was missing.
So much inconsistency in their statements. The destruction says a great deal.

15 posted on 01/31/2004 4:35:53 PM PST by Battle Axe (My real name means War Hammer.)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

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To: Sanchito
And on that glorious day we shall gather and feast!! I'll even buy!
BA

17 posted on 01/31/2004 7:19:22 PM PST by Battle Axe (My real name means War Hammer.)
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To: Sanchito; Van der Waals; Princeton; AnthraxProfiler

Hey you friggin' weirdo, listen up and listen carefully: the guy that you keep insanely thinking is the anthrax murderer and that you nuttily believe is going to inevitably be arrested by the FBI sooner or later doesn't work at Merck, his name isn't Victor Goetz, and he doesn't live anywhere in or near New Jersey. He a biology grad student at Caltech named Luigi Warren. Please stop repeatedly trolling this site under different names and personalities if you don't mind, thanks.

18 posted on 02/02/2004 10:56:43 AM PST by jpl
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"His Name Isn't Victor Goetz"



Feds seek delay in anthrax lawsuit

Palm Beach Post ^ | 1/31/04 | Alan Gomez


Posted on 01/31/2004 6:17:22 AM PST by TrebleRebel
Feds seek delay in anthrax lawsuit

By Alan Gomez, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Saturday, January 31, 2004



WEST PALM BEACH -- Federal attorneys are citing national security concerns in asking a Palm Beach County judge to delay a lawsuit filed by the widow of the nation's first anthrax victim, saying it could undermine one of the "largest and most complex investigations in law enforcement history."



In motions filed this week in federal court, lawyers for the government said, "... a stay of this civil suit is necessary to avoid compromising the United States' active investigation of the anthrax attacks of fall 2001 and to avoid public disclosure of sensitive information concerning biological weapons such as anthrax."



Unable to reach a resolution with the plaintiffs, federal attorneys are facing a March deadline to respond to the lawsuit filed by Maureen Stevens, whose husband, Bob, died after being exposed to anthrax while working as a photo editor at American Media Inc. headquarters in Boca Raton.



Wednesday's request to Federal Judge Daniel T.K. Hurley was for a six-month delay, and then for an opportunity to review whether another delay is necessary.



Maureen Stevens filed the lawsuit in September, seeking $50 million in damages for herself and her three children.



Her attorney argued in the suit that U.S. officials failed to secure a Maryland laboratory where the deadly bacterium was stored. The suit bases its claims on a memorandum that names the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Md., as the source of the Ames anthrax strain that Stevens believes infected her husband.



The Stevenses' attorney, Richard Schuler, said at the time that the family was frustrated over the government's stonewalling tactics, taking months to turn over an autopsy report, denying them access to DNA tests and even denying them money from the Sept. 11 Victims Compensation Fund.



In the government motion and a 114-page memorandum supporting their request, federal attorneys said Stevens' hope for a speedy investigation would undercut what has become a monumental investigation into a series of crimes that crippled the country.



Shortly after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, the country was sent into another panic as anthrax-laden letters and numerous hoax letters appeared across the nation, including media outlets in New York and Boca Raton and congressional buildings in Washington. Twenty-two people were infected with anthrax, five people died and 30,000 were treated with antibiotics to protect against anthrax infection.



In an affidavit attached to the motion, Richard Lambert, the FBI's inspector in charge of the FBI/U.S. Postal Service investigation known as "AMERITHRAX," explained the breadth of the ensuing investigation.



Federal agents have responded by putting in 251,000 agent-hours -- the equivalent of 97 work years -- interviewing more than 5,000 people and serving more than 4,000 subpoenas, Lambert said. The affidavit says the investigation has yielded "subjects of the investigation" and says that a "specific forensic signature is continuing to emerge which characterizes the anthrax used in the attacks."



Opening the files in the Stevens case, federal attorneys argued, would only hinder that investigation and possibly keep law enforcement from catching the responsible parties.



"Plaintiff's frustration that the murder of her husband remains unsolved and her desire to help the United States' investigation to succeed are understandable," the motion reads. "Unfortunately, however, the means that plaintiff seeks to employ -- stripping the investigation of its secrecy and conducting her own parallel investigation via this civil suit -- would be extremely harmful rather than helpful. Litigation of this suit also would pose a significant risk of disclosing classified or sensitive information relating to the acquisition, development, and use of weapons of mass destruction such as anthrax, a risk that independently justifies a stay."



Federal attorneys also included a March 2002 memorandum from White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card to all executive departments and agencies calling on them to review their records to ensure sensitive information is being safeguarded.



No hearing has been scheduled for the government's request.



alan_gomez@pbpost.com







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TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Front Page News

KEYWORDS: ANTHRAX

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1 posted on 01/31/2004 6:17:22 AM PST by TrebleRebel

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To: Sabertooth; Allan; Mitchell; genefromjersey; jpl

Surprise, surprise - after 2 1/2 years and draining ponds in Maryland the Feds are getting so close to an arrest that this lawsuit would just interfere with their investigation.



Or it could it be that for some unkown reson they don't want the public to see the evidence concerning how the anthrax was weaponized?



2 posted on 01/31/2004 6:20:17 AM PST by TrebleRebel

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]



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To: TrebleRebel

"Unable to reach a resolution with the plaintiffs, federal attorneys are facing a March deadline to respond to the lawsuit filed by Maureen Stevens"



Good for Mrs. Stevens - she obviously refuses to be bought off. It's not the money she wants - it's the truth.



3 posted on 01/31/2004 6:26:45 AM PST by TrebleRebel

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To: TrebleRebel

The "vital national security" aspect is that someone pissed away $50-$100M drilling a dry hole with "AMERITHRAX."



If it came from Iran, Syria, or anyplce else, it is the right of the people to know. And if it is the will of the people that nation should be erased from the face of the Earth, so be it.



4 posted on 01/31/2004 6:31:01 AM PST by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)

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To: TrebleRebel

Good for Mrs. Stevens - she obviously refuses to be bought off. It's not the money she wants - it's the truth

Looking for it from our government/legal system is an exercise in futility.





5 posted on 01/31/2004 6:53:32 AM PST by steve50 ("There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner.")

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To: TrebleRebel

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec01/s121501b.asp

Check this out. Read paragraph beginning with "Regardless of whether ISU.... I will post another curious article in a separate post.

One of the articles about Maureen Steven's suit stated that her lawyer had been denied access to the DNA information.



6 posted on 01/31/2004 7:19:20 AM PST by Battle Axe (My real name means War Hammer.)

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To: TrebleRebel

The truth is out there. Time to hear it.



7 posted on 01/31/2004 7:54:54 AM PST by Ranger

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To: TrebleRebel

Any old excuse will do.



8 posted on 01/31/2004 8:02:02 AM PST by latrans

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To: steve50

In the remote event that she should win this, the money should come from federal pensions. - FBI's first - with no repayment by the taxpayer, resulting in less than $4000 a month to the federales in retirement at Boca Raton.



9 posted on 01/31/2004 9:07:49 AM PST by henderson field

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To: henderson field

On the remote chance that it even gets a fair shot at going to court, I wonder what the legality of taking out a life insurance policy on her is?



10 posted on 01/31/2004 9:12:12 AM PST by steve50 ("There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner.")

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To: eno_

The "vital national security" aspect is that someone pissed away $50-$100M drilling a dry hole with "AMERITHRAX."

I love it whenever someone displays basic good old fashioned common sense and a well-functioning BS detector, and you certainly do.



....saying it could undermine one of the "largest and most complex investigations in law enforcement history."



Personally, I'd call it one of the biggest jokes of an investigation in law enforcement history, right down there with the Beltway Sniper investigation. And at least that one eventually got solved, thanks to a particularly alert truck driver.





11 posted on 01/31/2004 10:22:29 AM PST by jpl

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To: TrebleRebel

They are still trying to decided which pond will get drained next week.



13 posted on 01/31/2004 2:54:35 PM PST by ChefKeith (NASCAR...everything else is just a game!)

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To: ChefKeith

decided



14 posted on 01/31/2004 2:55:28 PM PST by ChefKeith (NASCAR...everything else is just a game!)

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To: Sanchito

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec01/s121501b.asp This is one of the quotes that states that "ISU didn't currently have that strain." The second one has Cheville saying that they didn't have the strain when it was mailed. But did they have it and someone stole it? Did they know what was stolen, and they knew they had multiple vials? These people of all were the ones that knew that each vial has a genetic fingerprint just as different as my fingerprints are from yours.

Second article: October 20, 2001 Newsmax.com Wires titled Iowa Destroys Anthrax Stores

Dr. Jim Roth, the leader of the destruction, states there was no overall inventory so there was no way to determine is any vials were missing. Two paragraphs later he says that all the vials were kept in a locked laboratory, and there was no evidence any was missing.

So much inconsistency in their statements. The destruction says a great deal.



15 posted on 01/31/2004 4:35:53 PM PST by Battle Axe (My real name means War Hammer.)

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies ]



-



To: Sanchito

And on that glorious day we shall gather and feast!! I'll even buy!

BA



17 posted on 01/31/2004 7:19:22 PM PST by Battle Axe (My real name means War Hammer.)

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]



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To: Sanchito; Van der Waals; Princeton; AnthraxProfiler

Hey you friggin' weirdo, listen up and listen carefully: the guy that you keep insanely thinking is the anthrax murderer and that you nuttily believe is going to inevitably be arrested by the FBI sooner or later doesn't work at Merck, his name isn't Victor Goetz, and he doesn't live anywhere in or near New Jersey. He a biology grad student at Caltech named Luigi Warren. Please stop repeatedly trolling this site under different names and personalities if you don't mind, thanks.



18 posted on 02/02/2004 10:56:43 AM PST by jpl

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Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.





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From Freerepublic.com

To: niman
Please, don't start with your BS again. We've been through all this, many moons ago. You tried to get personal information on people, you threatened them with lawsuits, then you took your marbles and ran away, like a good little paranoid schizophrenic. And now, you surface again, like a smelly turd that refuses to go down the toilet. What's up with that, Niman?

303 posted on 01/17/2003 7:53:50 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
I certainly have never said the attack was US sponsored.
Let me clarify. It was state sponsored in the sense that Ames was isolated and grown in the US and the US program provide sponsorship for developing the know how to weaponize the material. However, the state didn't sponsor (by giving orders) the one or two US scientists who did the mailings.


304 posted on 01/17/2003 7:54:50 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
However, the state didn't sponsor (by giving orders) the one or two US scientists who did the mailings.
So you foreswear and eschew the full Kristoff? Once and for all, Steve Hatfill did not receive anthrax from his CIA controls at a secret Cipro party in a safe house in Virginia, contrary to the absurd suggestion of Nicolas Kristoff in the New York Times. Correct?

Where's the grand jury, Henry?


305 posted on 01/17/2003 7:57:44 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
We've been through all this, many moons ago.
Mort, It looks like most on this board are lacking the science, and I assumed that you could help them out with your expertise.

As far as knowing your identity, it really wasn't that hard, so you need not worry about that. You are who you are and that part is fairly well known.


306 posted on 01/17/2003 8:01:56 PM PST by niman
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To: The Great Satan
contrary to the absurd suggestion of Nicolas Kristoff in the New York Times. Correct?
As I said, the Morton D Ballard / Louis Mason theory is becoming increasingly popular. Coupled with Alfred Hitchcock's "Rope" it looks to be an "award winner", which I think you understand.


307 posted on 01/17/2003 8:06:29 PM PST by niman
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To: niman; Jim Robinson
Mort, It looks like most on this board are lacking the science, and I assumed that you could help them out with your expertise.
Science? The science of "35 As"? ROFL! Nobody's going to be fooled by your BS diarrhea of pseudo-scientific jargon this time around, niman. It's too late for a snow job. Nobody's buying it. Try posting a picture of yourself wearing a white coat. Too bad about losing that tenure-track position by the way. What was the problem? Too much BS?

BTW, where's the grand jury, Henry?


308 posted on 01/17/2003 8:08:01 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: Allan
1. The anthrax did not come from the USA.
Even Level 1 is tricky here. Ames strain anthrax did come from the U.S.A., of course. It was isolated from a dead cow in Texas, now the second most famous cow in history (the first being Mrs. O'Leary's cow which did not start the Great Chicago Fire).

Presumably when people say that the anthrax did not come from the U.S.A, they mean that a sample was brought from the U.S.A. to another country, where it was cultured and weaponized; also that it was delivered by foreign agents in support of some foreign military or terrorist purpose.


309 posted on 01/17/2003 8:10:48 PM PST by Mitchell
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To: MadIvan
I just hope no intelligence assets lose their life over the disclosures or that any very secret technology is compromised.

310 posted on 01/17/2003 8:14:17 PM PST by fso301
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To: The Great Satan
Too bad about losing that tenure-track position by the way
Vic, Speaking of positions, how do you like working in NJ? Looks to be a much easier commute.


311 posted on 01/17/2003 8:14:42 PM PST by niman
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To: Mitchell
Presumably when people say that the anthrax did not come from the U.S.A, they mean that a sample was brought from the U.S.A. to another country, where it was cultured and weaponized; also that it was delivered by foreign agents in support of some foreign military or terrorist purpose.
Mitchell, You have been listing to Vic too much. Can you name ONE citation for Ames with 35 A's outside of the US that matches the attack Ames? I susspect Vic will not want to discuss this from a science point of view, because there is NO DATA.

How about from a media point of view. Have you read one citation of Ames with 35 A's outside of the US? I didn't think so.


312 posted on 01/17/2003 8:18:58 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
What was the problem? Just that your science was no good, or was it your paranoid-schizophrenic tendencies, or you proclivity for threatening people with lawsuits?

313 posted on 01/17/2003 8:19:27 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: Mitchell
1. The anthrax did not come from the USA.
I should have been more precise.
Rephrase that:

1. The spores did not come from the USA.


314 posted on 01/17/2003 8:21:51 PM PST by Allan
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To: niman
I didn't say whether I believed that it came from outside the U.S.A., or in what sense it might have come from outside the U.S.A. I was merely pointing out that even asking what it means to come from outside the U.S.A. was more complicated than one might realize.
And, no, TGS has not convinced everyone of his theory. My mind is open until I see some actual evidence.


315 posted on 01/17/2003 8:24:07 PM PST by Mitchell
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To: The Great Satan
for threatening people with lawsuits?
Vic, I would think that a lawsuit would be the least of your worries. Let's focus on some science and put some of that UPenn PhD training to work.

Why is it that no one has come up with ONE example of Ames with 35 A's outside of the US?


316 posted on 01/17/2003 8:26:37 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
Don't start with the BS henry. Just tell us about the tenure thing. That must have been quite a blow. Still, I think Pitt is well rid of you. Even in a low status department like Epidemiology, you want people who are a little bit more than bullsh***ers, correct?

317 posted on 01/17/2003 8:30:19 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: Mitchell
I was merely pointing out that even asking what it means to come from outside the U.S.A. was more complicated than one might realize.
Mitchell, Good point. By definition all Ames attack anthrax originated from the US because the bacteria was isolated from a cow that died in Texas in 1980. In fact I know of only two natural isolates of Ames, and both came from Texas (not withstanding the Ames-like nonsense posted about the accidental releas in the former Soviet Union in 1979).


318 posted on 01/17/2003 8:30:32 PM PST by niman
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To: Mitchell
TGS has not convinced everyone of his theory. My mind is open until I see some actual evidence.
Mitchell, Glad to hear that. I was worried that Vic had converted everyone on the anthrax_fans board in my absence. I take it that Vic hasn't presented any evidence there either.


319 posted on 01/17/2003 8:33:10 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
Where's the grand jury, henry?

320 posted on 01/17/2003 8:33:59 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
Just tell us about the tenure thing.
Vic, Your guesses about me have never been right, so why started discussing false info? You've have a PhD from U Penn since 1990 and have experince in vaccines and now you have graduated to monoclonals, my specialty, but lets just say you are scientically trained and should be able to help the readers understand that the sequencing of the attack Ames identified a very interesting locus that can be used to distnguish several Ames isolates and this intersting locus is IDENTICAL in the attack Ames and the Ames from USAMRIID.


321 posted on 01/17/2003 8:39:49 PM PST by niman
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To: Allan
1. The spores did not come from the USA.
Allan, Can you cite ONE examples of spores from outside of the US that are an EXACT match with the attack Ames and 35 A's? The has been PUBLISHED in Science for USAMRIID. Exactly the same as the attack anthrax, down to the 35 A's on pX02.


322 posted on 01/17/2003 8:43:23 PM PST by niman
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To: niman


323 posted on 01/17/2003 8:47:27 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: niman
Anthrax Sequence: Useful Data But No Smoking Gun
Martin Enserink
Science Magazine, 10 May, 2002

Seven months after anthrax letters hit U.S. media and government offices, investigators still haven't nabbed a suspect--and the genome project launched in part to help them seems unlikely to provide a break either. An analysis of the genome of the strain used in the attacks, published online this week by Science (www.sciencexpress.org), has yielded extra tools for fingerprinting the hundreds of different anthrax strains, but little in the paper suggests that it can help the FBI tie the attack strain to a specific lab.

"I don't see how this could help us much," says Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, director of the Federation of American Scientists' Chemical and Biological Arms Control Program, who has closely watched the federal investigation. But even without an immediate payoff, researchers at The Institute for Genomic Research (TIGR) in Rockville, Maryland, who conducted the research, say it provided experience in comparing microbial genomes that could be useful in future outbreaks.

Last fall's letters contained spores of a Bacillus anthracis strain called Ames, which was collected from a dead cow in Texas in 1981, sent to the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases in Fort Detrick, Maryland, and later forwarded for experiments to some 14 other labs.

Because microbes mutate whenever they grow, it's possible that the current strain at each lab is a little different from the rest. And if one of them happens to match the attack strain, now dubbed Florida, it might lead to the bioterrorists. But until recently, genetic fingerprinting studies by Paul Keim's lab at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff had looked at diversity at just several dozen markers, rather than the entire genome, and these had failed to discriminate among different Ames isolates.

Now, TIGR's Timothy Read, Keim, and others have sequenced the entire Florida strain and compared it with the so-called Porton strain, whose genome TIGR had already sequenced. (A paper describing that genome is due out later this year.) Like most strains, the Florida strain contains two extra rings of DNA, called plasmids, that the Porton strain lacks, so the researchers compared their sequences with the plasmids from two other strains. In all, the team found 53 places where the Florida genome differed from the Porton strain and the two previously sequenced plasmids.

But could these apparent genetic hotspots also help tell apart other, previously indistinguishable anthrax strains? To find out, the researchers took four Ames isolates collected from various labs; another Ames strain from a dead goat in Texas; and two non-Ames strains found in cattle. For each strain, they determined the exact sequence at each of the 53 markers.

Although the markers could clearly distinguish the samples from dead animals, they did a poor job of discriminating among the four lab strains. One had 36 copies of the nucleotide A where others had only 35--an almost meaningless difference. Another had 37 copies at that same spot; but that strain also lacked one of the plasmids, making it easy to tell apart anyway. At all the other markers, the four lab strains and the Florida strain were identical. Theoretically, more variation may emerge when the Ames strains from all 15 labs are put through the same 53-marker test. But the scant differences found so far "offer only slim hope that something useful will come out," says Rosenberg. Still, says Keim, the study shows that full-genome sequencing could be a useful forensic tool. And in cases such as bioterror crimes, the price tag--some $125,000 for a bug's genome--is hardly an issue: "A lawyer's sneeze costs more than that."


324 posted on 01/17/2003 8:58:29 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
Vic, The article you posted merely says that you can't exclude ALL labs but one. However, it provides NO DATA for even ONE exact match outside of the US.

325 posted on 01/17/2003 9:52:21 PM PST by niman
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To: The Great Satan
Vic,

What does ImClone's chart look like (do they offer any options in the money to new employees)?

326 posted on 01/17/2003 9:54:36 PM PST by niman
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To: niman
"THIS IS NEXT

WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX

YOU CAN NOT STOP US"


You know something? I think there may be something not quite right with this version. I mean, isn't there something missing and aren't the phrases from two different letters? Where's the line about death and Allah? I mean isn't the "threat" not just a warning or is? Man I'm confused.I wonder is TGS could help me out with this?
I'll wait for an answer.

"THIS IS NEXT

WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX

YOU CAN NOT STOP US"


327 posted on 01/17/2003 10:12:27 PM PST by co-jones
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To: co-jones
That quote is on the post for the graphic he turned me on to:


I had no idea he was tenured.


328 posted on 01/17/2003 10:35:05 PM PST by txflake
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To: txflake
Gee, and just where have I seen that picture before?
I believe that one of the unholy trinity may have been looking for it as he said he "lost" his copy.

SHhhhhh, listen carefully - what do you hear?

Could that possibly be The Fat Lady Singing?

329 posted on 01/17/2003 10:45:48 PM PST by AnthraxProfiler
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To: AnthraxProfiler
So is the guy selling anthrax vaccine, or what?

330 posted on 01/17/2003 10:52:27 PM PST by txflake
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To: Allan
It isn't. I'll just say I think both are wrong and let it go at that.

331 posted on 01/17/2003 10:55:21 PM PST by keri
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To: co-jones
"THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US"
Of course this is nonsense. The THIS IS NEXT was from the Sept 18 letter that most recipients just threw in the garbage. No one knew what the idiot was taking about. He was so delusional that he sent a letter about anthrax and never included the word anthrax! The guy was a complete moron. When the victims developed lesions, they thought they were insect bites!

Our clueless clown then wrote the second letter, which included WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX, YOU CAN NOT STOP US, expecting people to believe that the letters came from the dead hijackers. Utter nonsense that was believed by a few nuts into involved convolted plots involving "sleeper cells".

If you think about, these detailed plans designed to deceive were somewhat like the attempted "perfect crime" of Leonard and Loeb who created the fake names of Morton P Ballard and Louis Mason and left clues to shift the blame elsewhere. Now what moron(s) would immitate those clowns, who messed up big time and got life plus 99 years for ONE murder.

The anthrax mailer(s) should be so lucky!


332 posted on 01/17/2003 10:59:59 PM PST by niman
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To: txflake
Why do you ask?

Has he been trying to sell something here?

Were there many buyers?

You know, some folks sure are naive.

333 posted on 01/17/2003 11:00:40 PM PST by AnthraxProfiler
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To: AnthraxProfiler
No, just that this thread has been going on for days, nobody knows what the smoking gun is, but many people are convinced it's anthrax. Passionately. I just want the gun ID'd.

334 posted on 01/17/2003 11:10:00 PM PST by txflake
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To: niman
Was it Shakespeare who wrote, The Devil can quote the bible for his own purpose, or did he write Satan can quote the bible for his own purpose?

Oh well, guess it doesn't much matter now.

I'm really tired. Had a long day and I've got a really big day tomorrow. Think I'll get some sleep - now.

335 posted on 01/17/2003 11:13:11 PM PST by AnthraxProfiler

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Berry Berry Berry Berry md MD
Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax freerepublic the great satan anthrax letters anthrax anthrax anthrax investigation anthrax letters anthrax letters anthrax anthrax anthrax investigation anthrax letters Ft Detrick USAMRIID Camel club Assaad antrax antrax 005 ripley zack Don Foster forensic analysis handwriting anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax investigation spores lost stolen ames ames anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city anthrax city

Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax goetz anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax
Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax victor investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax investigation fbi anthrax anthrax anthrax Steven hatfill anthrax